First Amendment
Shooting the breeze about
immigration, nationality, and legal rights until the moderator
reminds us that the WC list is no general chat room.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sune Nordwall
Subject: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 15:49:40 +0100
Dear Steve,
you
write on the First Amendment:
Censorship continues in various ways.
...
... even in the U.S., there are plenty of restrictions on speech.
...
Of course, first amendment law is much more complex than this
summary, but my point is this. Although this country has not
fully realized its ideals with respect to free speech, it is
one of the principles for which the country stands. We must all
be vigilant in insisting that the government abide by its principles.
Only 8 days ago, Wednesday, February 24, 1999
Georgetown University Law Center
Center for Constitutional Rights
National Lawyers Guild
American Civil Liberties Union
sent out a JOINT IMMEDIATE NEWS RELEASE
http://www.igc.org/igc/pn/hl/9903024997/hl1.html [obsolete url]
on
"Supreme Court Rules Aliens Have No First
Amendment Defense Against Selective Deportation For Political
Ties Lower Courts Had Barred the Deportations on First Amendment
Grounds"
***************************************
Washington, DC -- The Supreme Court today
ruled that immigrants have no right to object to being targeted
for deportation based on their association with a political group.
In an astounding decision that reached an issue neither party
had even briefed, the Court effectively denied to all immigrants
in this country the same First Amendment rights that U.S. citizens
enjoy.
The case arose out of the government's longstanding
efforts to deport eight noncitizens for their political associations
and activities. The noncitizens -- seven Palestinians and a Kenyan
-- were arrested more than a decade ago by the INS and charged
with being associated with a group that "advocates world
communism," then a deportable offense under the McCarran-Walter
Act. From the outset, the government has admitted that none of
the eight engaged in any criminal or terrorist activities, and
has admitted that it singled them out for deportation based on
their political ties, distribution of literature, communication
with other members, and humanitarian aid fundraising.
The INS instituted the deportation proceedings
in 1987, accusing the eight of associating with the Popular Front
for the Liberation of Palestine, a constituent group of the Palestine
Liberation Organization. Documents in the court record show that
it did so at the behest of the FBI, which urged the INS to deport
the eight in order to hamper the political activities of the
PFLP in the LA area, even though the FBI concedes it found no
evidence of criminal conduct by the group.
In one document, the FBI specifically urges
the deportation of one of the eight because he is "intelligent,
aggressive, and has great leadership ability," and therefore
incapacitating him would hamper the group ...
***************************************
Regards,
Sune
Stockholm, Sweden
http://hem.passagen.se/thebee/indexeng.htm
- a site on science, homeopathy, cosmological cell biology and
EU as a mechanical esoteric temple and threefolding of society
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Steve Premo"
Subject: Re: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:15:50 -0700
Thanks for posting this, Sune. I have one
correction:
On 4 Mar 99, at 15:49, Sune Nordwall wrote:
the Court effectively denied to all immigrants
in this country the same First Amendment rights that U.S. citizens
enjoy.
That should read "all aliens." Many
immigrants have obtained
citizenship, and as such, are entitled to the same rights as
any
other citizen.
Steve Premo -- Santa Cruz, California
"There is a right and a wrong in the Universe and
that distinction is not difficult to make." - Superman
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ezra Beeman
Subject: Re: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 09:51:30 -0500
Steve Premo wrote:
Thanks for posting this, Sune. I have one
correction:
On 4 Mar 99, at 15:49, Sune Nordwall wrote:
the Court effectively denied to all immigrants
in this country the same First Amendment rights that U.S. citizens
enjoy.
That should read "all aliens."
Many immigrants have obtained citizenship, and as such, are entitled
to the same rights as any other citizen.
Is an alien someone who is visiting this country?
An immigrant is someone who is living here lawfully, correct?
Illegal aliens are those visiting/living here unlawfully. I ask
because I think my girlfriend is an alien in this case. She will
be bemused by the fact she has 'special' 1st amendment rights.
I will be sure to raise the issue the next time she offers her
opinion (grin).
e
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Steve Premo"
Subject: Re: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:43:07 -0700
On 4 Mar 99, at 15:49, Sune Nordwall wrote:
Washington, DC -- The Supreme Court today
ruled that immigrants have no right to object to being targeted
for deportation based on their association with a political group.
In an astounding decision that reached an issue neither party
had even briefed, the Court effectively denied to all immigrants
in this country the same First Amendment rights that U.S. citizens
enjoy.
We're really getting off on a tangent here...
The case is at:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&navby=case&vol=000&invol=97-1252
The gist of it is that while aliens cannot
be punished for exercise of their rights of free speech, the
government has enormous discretion as to who may or may not be
admitted to the country, and allowed to remain in the country:
"What will be involved in deportation
cases is not merely the disclosure of normal domestic law-enforcement
priorities and techniques, but often the disclosure of foreign-policy
objectives and (as in this case) foreign-intelligence products
and techniques. The Executive should not have to disclose its
"real" reasons for deeming nationals of a particular
country a special threat -- or indeed for simply wishing to antagonize
a particular foreign country by focusing on that country's nationals--and
even if it did disclose them a court would be ill equipped to
determine their authenticity and utterly unable to assess their
adequacy. Moreover, . . . [w]hile the consequences of deportation
may assuredly be grave, they are not imposed as a punishment
. . . . Even when deportation is sought because of some act the
alien has committed, in principle the alien is not being punished
for that act (criminal charges may be available for that separate
purpose) but is merely being held to the terms under which he
was admitted."
I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's
the court's rationale.
Steve Premo -- Santa Cruz, California
"There is a right and a wrong in the Universe and
that distinction is not difficult to make." - Superman
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tarjei Straume
Subject: Re: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:37:32 +0100
Dear Sune,
We are perhaps a little off topic here, but
I think it's a breath of fresh air to touch a non-anthroposophical
theme once in a while, so that differences of opinion don't always
follow the same lines. Non-American Anarchists have been banned
by law from entering the U.S. since 1903, even for short visits.
The law was enacted after president McKinley was assassinated
by Polish anarchists in Chicago in 1901. And the statute makes
it very clear that anarchism is anarchism, regardless of how
spiritual and peaceful it might be.
Which reminds me of the fact that when I spent
over decade in the U.S. illegally, my illegal status was made
necessary by two factors: My earlier conviction in Norway for
cannabis, and my anarchism. And by the same token, I am banned
from the U.S. for the very same reasons. The statute relating
to the drug conviction bars me from ever obtaining a green card,
and because I have applied for immigration in the past, I will
probably be denied even short visits - especially with a record
like mine.
This is why I call myself a criminal anarchist
with pride. Adding my anthroposophy to this, we get anarchosophy,
which must be especially scary and obnoxious to bourgeois, law-abiding,
patriotic Waldorf critics. The skulls on my website should testify
to that.
So tell your local pastors that there is an
alien anarchist out there who has been convicted for drugs, is
deeply into the occult, and doing strange things in the night,
and that he shares his dark secrets with shrewd and conniving
Waldorf teachers who are hungry for your kids.
(Sorry folks - I just couldn't help myself.
I'll try not to do that again.)
Cheers,
Tarjei
http://www.uncletaz.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Steve Premo"
Subject: Re: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:06:05 -0700
On 4 Mar 99, at 9:51, Ezra Beeman wrote:
Is an alien someone who is visiting this
country?
An alien is someone from outer space.
Or, an alien is someone who is not a citizen
of the country in which he is physically located at the time.
He may be a visitor, a temporary resident, or a permanent resident.
In some countries, you can be an alien even
if you're born there. In the U.S., people born here automatically
have citizenship regardless of the status of their parents.
An immigrant is someone who is living here
lawfully, correct?
I believe that an immigrant is someone from
another country who has moved into a country with the intention
or remaining permanently. An immigrant may or may not be a citizen.
Steve Premo -- Santa Cruz, California
"There is a right and a wrong in the Universe and
that distinction is not difficult to make." - Superman
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Tolz, Robert"
Subject: RE: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:19:04 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Ezra Beeman
Subject: Re: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Is an alien someone who is visiting this country? An immigrant
is someone who is living here lawfully, correct? Illegal aliens
are those visiting/living here unlawfully. I ask because I think
my girlfriend is an alien in this case. She will be bemused by
the fact she has 'special' 1st amendment rights. I will be sure
to raise the issue the next time she offers her opinion (grin).
e
To be a little more precise, and without checking
my sources, I think the term "alien" describes anyone
who is not a citizen of the U.S. The term "immigrant"
means a non-citizen who is here in the U.S. with the intention
of making the U.S. his or her permanent domicile. An immigrant
could be either legal or illegal.
To restate, using "set theory:"
The largest set of individuals is "aliens." Aliens
who intend to forever remain are immigrants and those who do
not intend to do so are non-immigrants. An immigrant who remains
here lawfully is a legal immigrant, and, obviously, one who remains
unlawfully is an illegal immigrant. An illegal immigrant is also
an illegal alien.
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Steve Premo"
Subject: RE: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:46:22 -0700
On 4 Mar 99, at 13:19, Tolz, Robert wrote:
To restate, using "set theory:"
The largest set of individuals is "aliens." Aliens
who intend to forever remain are immigrants and those who do
not intend to do so are non-immigrants.
And immigrants who are naturalized citizens
are no longer aliens, so "immigrant" is not a subset
of "alien," but an intersecting set.
Steve Premo -- Santa Cruz, California
"There is a right and a wrong in the Universe and
that distinction is not difficult to make." - Superman
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tarjei Straume
Subject: Re: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:09:17 +0100
Ezra Beeman wrote:
Is an alien someone who is visiting this
country? An immigrant is someone who is living here lawfully,
correct? Illegal aliens are those visiting/living here unlawfully.
I ask because I think my girlfriend is an alien in this case.
She will be bemused by the fact she has 'special' 1st amendment
rights. I will be sure to raise the issue the next time she offers
her opinion (grin).
e
Please check out what I wrote and delivered
to the INS personally while being an illegal alien in the U.S.
at
http://uncletaz.com/poetry/aliens.html
I believe it answers all these questions.
Cheers,
Tarjei
http://www.uncletaz.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bruce
Subject: Re: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:02:01 EST
Hi folks!
Since Tarjei cannot seemingly stop his singing
about "I'm an illegal alien..", I thought I'd bring
the matter up to date a little!
The relations between Germany and the USA
have not been improved over the last 24 hours.
First came the "hinrichten" in the
gas-chamber in Arizona of a German who 18 years ago murdered
a bank-manager. Capital punishment has long been banned in, so
far as I know, all European countries. It seems ironic that the
USA, with its constitution, still allows it (in some states).
And the USA is not exactly renowned for its safe streets. What
does capital punishment achieve? And there are still 6 Germans
amongst the 42 foreigners on death row. Add to that that the
poor individual was gassed with cyanide, and all that goes with
that according to Steiner, the anthroposophists are even more
concerned.
Second came the news that the USAF pilot who
sliced through a cable-car cable while flying incredibly fast
and incredibly low has been freed. He killed 20 innocent holidaymakers,
8 of whom were German. This happened in Italy. Why cant the Americans,
if they insist on practicing such dangerous manoevres, choose
somewhere like the USA for their practice? Its big enough and
largely less populated than most of Europe. Maybe all air-forces
and armies should be dis-armed and disbanded!
Thought you might be interested - those NOT
in the USA please forgive the outburst.
Bruce
PS I love america and the americans, but sometimes
you guys make me sick!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ezra Beeman
Subject: Re: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 12:50:48 -0500
You forgot the 100% tax on your (German) coffee
makers. (Thanks to fruity trade policies) In fairness to AZ,
the guy explicitly asked for the gas to make a statement about
capital punishment. Maybe he should have asked for a pieing instead.
Gas is now illegal in AZ, but older inmates may choose it still,
or lethal injection. His brother chose lethal injection. Seems
to me German's make up a disproportionate amount of death row
inmates.
e
Bruce wrote:
Hi folks!
Since Tarjei cannot seemingly stop his singing about "I'm
an illegal alien..", I thought I'd bring the matter up to
date a little!
The relations between Germany and the USA have not been improved
over the last 24 hours.
First came the "hinrichten" in the gas-chamber in Arizona
of a German who 18 years ago murdered a bank-manager. Capital
punishment has long been banned in, so far as I know, all European
countries. It seems ironic that the USA, with its constitution,
still allows it (in some states). And the USA is not exactly
renowned for its safe streets. What does capital punishment achieve?
And there are still 6 Germans amongst the 42 foreigners on death
row. Add to that that the poor individual was gassed with cyanide,
and all that goes with that according to Steiner, the anthroposophists
are even more concerned.
Second came the news that the USAF pilot who sliced through a
cable-car cable while flying incredibly fast and incredibly low
has been freed. He killed 20 innocent holidaymakers, 8 of whom
were German. This happened in Italy. Why cant the Americans,
if they insist on practicing such dangerous manoevres, choose
somewhere like the USA for their practice? Its big enough and
largely less populated than most of Europe. Maybe all air-forces
and armies should be dis-armed and disbanded!
Thought you might be interested - those NOT in the USA please
forgive the outburst.
Bruce
PS I love america and the americans, but
sometimes you guys make me sick!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tarjei Straume
Subject: RE: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:02:56 +0100
Bob Toltz wrote:
To be a little more precise, and without
checking my sources, I think the term "alien" describes
anyone who is not a citizen of the U.S. The term "immigrant"
means a non-citizen who is here in the U.S. with the intention
of making the U.S. his or her permanent domicile. An immigrant
could be either legal or illegal.
To restate, using "set theory:" The largest set of
individuals is "aliens." Aliens who intend to forever
remain are immigrants and those who do not intend to do so are
non-immigrants. An immigrant who remains here lawfully is a legal
immigrant, and, obviously, one who remains unlawfully is an illegal
immigrant. An illegal immigrant is also an illegal alien.
In any case, every person with a foreign passport
is an alien, legal or illegal, immigrant or non-immigrant. Americans
are aliens in Norway, which reminds me of a case three or four
years ago about an American citizen who sought refuge in a church
asylum, just like any refugee. He had a Norwegian fiancee, but
the foreign police (the Norwegian INS) wanted to deport him because
of red tape technicalities.
Still, it's a lot easier for an illegal alien
to get away with his or her "crime" in America and
Europe alike as long as the person is white and originating from
a wealthy, industrialized nation. There is no problem for Canadians
in America, but Mexicans have big problems. (I was never questioned
as long as I had my driver licence and social security card.
My name looks foreign, but I just claimed birth in New York.)
There is a lot of racism involved here on
behalf of the authorities, in America and in Europe. As an anarchist,
I say with Cicero: "I will regard all lands as belonging
to me, and my own as belonging to all mindkind." And I'd
be proud to break the law by helping out an illegal immigrant
anytime; I have made my acquaintances among illegal aliens in
Oslo who survive as drug dealers in the underworld. As a former
illegal alien in the U.S., I feel a bond with those people, many
of whom are from African countries. This is why I collide so
forcefully with the right wingers about immigration and race,
and why I find it so offensive when it is falsely alleged that
my personal, theosophical-anthroposophical view of evolution
and history comes from a creep like Alfred Rosenberg, and that
these views of mine are immoral, despicable, and racist. As a
criminal left wing extremist, I testify to the fact that this
"nazification" of anthroposophy is immoral and despicable
and dirty.
Cheers,
Tarjei
http://www.uncletaz.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Tolz, Robert"
Subject: RE: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:05:45 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Tarjei Straume
In any case, every person with a foreign
passport is an alien, legal or illegal, immigrant or non-immigrant.
Nope. Sorry for being picky, but one can have
a foreign passport and not be an alien. My wife has both an Argentinian
and a U.S. passport. She's a U.S. citizen and not an alien.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tarjei Straume
Subject: RE: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:24:47 +0100
I wrote:
In any case, every person with a foreign
passport is an alien, legal or illegal, immigrant or non-immigrant.
Bob Toltz wrote:
Nope. Sorry for being picky, but one can have a foreign passport
and not be an alien. My wife has both an Argentinian and a U.S.
passport. She's a U.S. citizen and not an alien.
Very interesting. I thought they made a law
in 1940 that makes it unlawful for Americans to enjoy dual citizenships.
I think the Department of State would frown on it if they found
out, so don't volunteer that information to them. Argentina evidently
has no rule against dual citizenships, but I'm pretty sure the
U.S. does.
Tarjei
http://www.uncletaz.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ezra Beeman
Subject: Re: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 13:30:33 -0500
Tarjei Straume wrote:
Very interesting. I thought they made a
law in 1940 that makes it unlawful for Americans to enjoy dual
citizenships. I think the Department of State would frown on
it if they found out, so don't volunteer that information to
them. Argentina evidently has no rule against dual citizenships,
but I'm pretty sure the U.S. does.
I used to be under similar impressions, but
the State Dept. has since loosened up. I think the law you are
referring to has been modified. A friend of mine has three (Israel,
UK, US), and I have numerous friends with dual citizenship (UK/US
FR/US)..
e
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tarjei Straume
Subject: Re: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:15:15 +0100
Ezra Beeman wrote:
Gas is now illegal in AZ, but older inmates
may choose it still, or lethal injection. His brother chose lethal
injection.
How generous of the authorities to give you
a menu like that. Imagine the freedom of choice between poison,
electricity, bullets, and what have you. The guillotine is supposed
to be the most painless though, and death is always instant (unless
you're a chicken, no pun intended). I guess this luxury of free
choice for death row inmates is one of those pearls that makes
America a moral role model for the rest of the world - something
we keep hearing from Washington every once in a while.
Some links to sites about the death penalty
are located at
http://www.quaker.org/fcadp/
http://www.envisioning.org/home.htm
[obsolete url]
http://www.handsoffcain.org/english/ [obsolete url]
http://gos.sbc.edu/p/prejean.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/angel/interviews/hprejean.html
http://www.wco.com/~aerick/lnt.htm [obsolete url]
http://www.ocadp.org/A_prayer_by_Sister_Helen_Prejean.html
[obsolete url]
http://www.salon1999.com/06/reviews/dead3.html
Happy dreams,
Tarjei
http://www.uncletaz.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Tolz, Robert"
Subject: RE: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:42:33 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Tarjei Straume
Very interesting. I thought they made a
law in 1940 that makes it unlawful for Americans to enjoy dual
citizenships. I think the Department of State would frown on
it if they found out, so don't volunteer that information to
them. Argentina evidently has no rule against dual citizenships,
but I'm pretty sure the U.S. does.
From http://www.webcom.com/richw/dualcit/faq.html:
[obsolete url]
"The official US State Department policy
on dual citizenship today is that the United States does not
favor it as a matter of policy because of various problems they
feel it may cause, but the existence of dual citizenship is recognized
in individual cases. That is, if you ask them if you ought to
become a dual citizen, they will recommend against doing it;
but if you tell them you are a dual citizen, they'll usually
say it's OK."
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sune Nordwall
Subject: First Amendment (Was: Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 16:32:28 +0100
P.S
Against the background of the ruling of the
Supreme Court a week ago, and already having attracted the attention
of a US Military server three times since September last year
(http://uk.nedstat.net/viewstat.asp?name=thebeeeng
[no current stats] Lower part of page; Pageviews per domain, domain
nr 25) and Old style Arpanet once (http://uk.nedstat.net/viewstat.asp?name=cosmcell;
domain 22), ARPANET as such started in 1969 by the Defence
Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), I suspect I may have
trouble joining in on Dan´s birthday on the passage of
the Sun from the sign of Pisces to Aries (Oops, sorry, the Ram!)
in two weeks ... ;-)(
Sune
Stockholm, Sweden
http://hem.passagen.se/thebee/indexeng.htm
- a site on science, homeopathy, cosmological cell biology and
EU as a mechanical esoteric temple and threefolding of society
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bruce
Subject: Re: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:58:25 EST
In einer eMail vom 04.03.99 22:33:16 (MEZ)
Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt
Ezra Beeman:
You forgot the 100% tax on your (German)
coffee makers. (Thanks to fruity trade policies)
well - actually I knew nothing about it
In fairness to AZ, the guy explicitly asked
for the gas to make a statement about capital punishment. Maybe
he should have asked for a pieing instead.
pieing would have got the jailer in trouble!!
Gas is now illegal in AZ, but older inmates
may choose it still, or lethal injection. His brother chose lethal
injection. Seems to me German's make up a disproportionate amount
of death row inmates.
yeah! Dunno why? Why are they in the US in
the first place
Bruce
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Steve Premo"
Subject: Re: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:38:10 -0700
On 4 Mar 99, at 15:02, Bruce wrote:
Add to that that the poor individual was
gassed with cyanide, and all that goes with that according to
Steiner, the anthroposophists are even more concerned.
What did Steiner say about cyanide?
And what did the poor fellow do to deserve
such a fate?
Steve Premo -- Santa Cruz, California
"There is a right and a wrong in the Universe and
that distinction is not difficult to make." - Superman
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Dan Dugan
Subject: Re: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 01:26:26 -0800
I'd like to suggest that this thread come
back to Anthroposophy and/or Waldorf or die a natural death.
This is not a general chat room.
-Dan Dugan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bruce
Subject: Re: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:58:28 EST
In einer eMail vom 04.03.99 22:06:09 (MEZ)
Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt
Steve Premo:
On 4 Mar 99, at 15:02, [email protected]
wrote:
Add to that that the poor individual was
gassed with cyanide, and all that goes with that according to
Steiner, the anthroposophists are even more concerned.
What did Steiner say about cyanide?
WOW - I thought that was a point being discussed
on wc when I joined, only in the context that Steiner must have
been a Nazi since the Nazis knew that poisoning with Cyanide
is unique, and .... well its heavy anthroposophy, if you really
want more Steve write me offlist
And what did the poor fellow do to deserve
such a fate?
I think this is now clear from other emails,
but bluntly he and his brother murdered a bank-manager in a bank-robbery
which went badly wrong. I think Arts post is very salient - if
he had shot thirty people in cold blood he would be living comfortably
in a mental hospital.
Bruce
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ezra Beeman
Subject: Re: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 10:00:23 -0500
Bruce wrote:
WOW - I thought that was a point being
discussed on wc when I joined, only in the context that Steiner
must have been a Nazi since the Nazis knew that poisoning with
Cyanide is unique, and .... well its heavy anthroposophy, if
you really want more Steve write me offlist
I thought the Nazi's preferred Zyclone B or
some derivative. Is it the same as cyanide?
I've not heard this connection made on this
list in the past year, now I'm afraid we might suffer through
another barrage of nonsense. While we're out it, are there anthro
thoughts on lethal injection, electrocution or old fashioned
blunt force?
e
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bruce
Subject: Re: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:58:30 EST
In einer eMail vom 04.03.99 21:17:42 (MEZ)
Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt
Tolz, Robert:
Sorry for being picky, but one can have
a foreign passport and not be an alien. My wife has both an Argentinian
and a U.S. passport. She's a U.S. citizen and not an alien.
If she were in the UK with a UK and an Argentinian
passport, she would go to the aliens officer at the police station
to deal with queries regarding her Argentinian passport!
Bruce
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Tolz, Robert"
Subject: RE: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:17:44 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce
If she were in the UK with a UK and an
Argentinian passport, she would go to the aliens officer at the
police station to deal with queries regarding her Argentinian
passport!
Bruce
So the Brits still hold a grudge over the
Malvinas, eh?
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bruce
Subject: Re: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 16:59:23 EST
In einer eMail vom 05.03.99 21:00:41 (MEZ)
Mitteleuropäische Zeit schreibt Tolz, Robert:
So the Brits still hold a grudge over the
Malvinas, eh?
Bob
maybe - but I didn't mean it only applies
to Argentinians!!
Oops!
Bruce
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From: Stephen Tonkin
Subject: Re: First Amendment (Was Re: Watch it ...)
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:42:07 +0000
Tolz, Robert wrote:
So the Brits still hold a grudge over the
Malvinas, eh?
It's spelt F*A*L*K*L*A*N*D*S, Bob <g>.
Noctis Gaudia Carpe,
Stephen
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