Hitler's Occultism
A discussion about Adolf
Hitler's attitude towards Christianity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Steve Premo"
Subject: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:11:37 -0700
Here's an excerpt from an article I just read
at the Free Inquiry magazine website. Free Inquiry is a publication
of the Council for Secular Humanism, and the article is a response
to preachers and politicians who claim that Hitler was an atheist.
<begin quote>
Hitler was a Roman Catholic,
baptized into that religio-political institution as an infant
in Austria. He became a communicant and an altar boy in his youth
and was confirmed as a "soldier of Christ" in that
church. Its worst doctrines never left him. He was steeped in
its liturgy, which contained the words "perfidious jew."
This hateful statement was not removed until 1961. "Perfidy"
means treachery.
In his day, hatred of Jews
was the norm. In great measure it was sponsored by by two major
religions of Germany, Catholicism, and Lutheranism. He greatly
admired Martin Luther, who openly hated the Jews. Luther condemned
the Catholic Church for its pretensions and corruption, but he
supported the centuries of papal pogroms against the Jews. Luther
said, "The Jews deserve to be hanged on gallows, seven times
higher than ordinary thieves," and "We ought to take
revenge on the Jews and kill them." "Ungodly wretches"
he called the Jews in his book Table Talk.
Hitler seeking power, wrote
in Mein Kampf, "... I am convinced that I am acting as the
agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the
Lord's work." Years later, when in power, he quoted those
same words in a Reichstag speech in 1938.
Three years later he informed
General Gerhart Engel: "I am now as before a Catholic and
will always remain so." He never left the church, and the
church never left him.
<end quote>
I suspect that Christianity had much, much
more influence over the rise of the Nazis, and the development
of their hateful policy toward the Jews, than either Anthroposophy
or Theosophy.
Steve Premo -- Santa Cruz, California
"Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carbonata descendum
pantorum."
(A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John & Wendy Morehead
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 11:37:19
At 09:11 AM 5/10/99 -0700, you wrote:
I suspect that Christianity had much, much
more influence over the rise of the Nazis, and the development
of their hateful policy toward the Jews, than either Anthroposophy
or Theosophy.
Yikes! Are we going to now begin to hold Christianity
responsible for the religious foundation for National Socialism?
It was either the Discovery Channel or The Learning Channel that
ran a fascinating documentary for two hours on the occultic influences
on Hitler and National Socialism, not orthodox Christianity,
which unfortunately was largely silent while Hitler rose to power
and carried on his atrocities. I'll dig up the book title and
author, but there was a fascinating scholarly treatment on Hitler
and the occult as well. To sum up, there was a far greater influence
of the occult and a revival of ancient Aryan religion on Hitler,
than orthodox Christianity. But note that I am *not* saying that
all occultism leads to National Socialism, will create a Hitler,
or is responsible for the Holocaust. Individuals can use a variety
of influences to justify their personal evil.
John Morehead
=========================
John W. Morehead
Executive Vice President
TruthQuest Institute
P.O. Box 227
Loomis, CA 95650
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Steve Premo"
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:04:51 -0700
On 10 May 99, at 11:37, John & Wendy Morehead
wrote:
At 09:11 AM 5/10/99 -0700, you wrote:
I suspect that Christianity had much, much
more influence over the rise of the Nazis, and the development
of their hateful policy toward the Jews, than either Anthroposophy
or Theosophy.
Yikes! Are we going to now begin to hold
Christianity responsible for the religious foundation for National
Socialism?
No. I said that I suspected that Christianity
had more influence than Anthroposophy or Theosophy, but that's
saying practically nothing, since I doubt that Anthroposophy
or Theosophy had much influence at all.
But note that I am *not* saying that all
occultism leads to National Socialism, will create a Hitler,
or is responsible for the Holocaust. Individuals can use a variety
of influences to justify their personal evil.
My point exactly. The fact that someone uses
the Bible to justify slavery, or the oppression of homosexuals
or Jews, does not mean that Christianity is to blame for those
wrongs. By the same token, though, the fact that Hitler and his
cronies may have gained some comfort from the Theosophical/Anthroposophical
view of history does not mean that those doctrines caused or
contributed to the Holocaust.
If you conduct a witch hunt, you'll find witches
to burn.
Steve Premo -- Santa Cruz, California
"Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carbonata descendum
pantorum."
(A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tarjei Straume
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:03:24 +0200
Steve, something doesn't compute here about
Hitler's affirmation of Catholicism. Hitler wanted to eradicate
Christianity completely, and the only Bible was to be "Mein
Kampf". Alfred Rosenberg was the chief architect behind
the permanent annihalition of Christianity, and Heinrich Himmler
promised to take care of the public execution of the Pope as
soon as the war was won.
Hitler hated Christianity because he saw it
as ideological competition. So I'm not inclined to believe the
Catholic story at first hearing. I suspect the humanists have
picked up a spurious rumor to get some extra Nazi-juice on Christianity
- until someone can give me the documented source of Hitler's
alleged quote.
Cheers
Tarjei Straume
Greetings from Uncle Taz
http://www.uncletaz.com/
Anarchosophy, anarchism, anthroposophy, occultism,
Christianity, poetry,
plays, library, articles, galleries, marijuana, criminality,
death, skulls,
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John & Wendy Morehead
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 11:43:02
At 08:03 PM 5/10/99 +0200, you wrote:
Hitler hated Christianity because he saw
it as ideological competition. So I'm not inclined to believe
the Catholic story at first hearing. I suspect the humanists
have picked up a spurious rumor to get some extra Nazi-juice
on Christianity - until someone can give me the documented source
of Hitler's alleged quote.
I am making another mental note. I have found
another area where Tarjei and I agree. :)
Best,
JOhn
=========================
John W. Morehead
Executive Vice President
TruthQuest Institute
P.O. Box 227
Loomis, CA 95650
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tarjei Straume
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:21:56 +0200
John Morehead wrote:
Yikes! Are we going to now begin to hold Christianity responsible
for the religious foundation for National Socialism? It was either
the Discovery Channel or The Learning Channel that ran a fascinating
documentary for two hours on the occultic influences on Hitler
and National Socialism, not orthodox Christianity, which unfortunately
was largely silent while Hitler rose to power and carried on
his atrocities. I'll dig up the book title and author, but there
was a fascinating scholarly treatment on Hitler and the occult
as well. To sum up, there was a far greater influence of the
occult and a revival of ancient Aryan religion on Hitler, than
orthodox Christianity. But note that I am *not* saying that all
occultism leads to National Socialism, will create a Hitler,
or is responsible for the Holocaust. Individuals can use a variety
of influences to justify their personal evil.
Heinrich Himmler built his SS (Schutzstaffel)
on the pattern of the Jesuit Order. This parallell (between SS
and Jesuits) was very comprehensive and was not confined to occult
methodology. Oaths and rituals, internal priesthoods, declarations
of faith to the Reich, the Führer and God - all this was
part of SS. They also had their own catechism. "Why do we
believe in Germany and the Führer?" asked the catechism.
Answer: "Because we believe in God, we believe in Germany
that He created in His world, and in the Führer whom he
has sent us."
The Nazis made a thorough investigation of
all religious and occult traditions and organizations, leaving
no stone unturned. All Nazi-leaders, with the exception of Goebbels,
were deeply involved in some ocult or magical practice or other.
Hitler himself must be regarded as a very capable occultist who
had a marked paranoia of secret occult brotherhoods. Fearing
that a conspiracy would remove him from power, he made Himmler
responsible for the investigation and suppression of all organizations
that could pose a threat. Himmler's spies and agents infiltrated
all kinds of occult groups and wrote long reports for Gestapo.
Among the investigated groups were the Jesuits, Jehovah's Witnesses,
astrological societies, the Freemasons, and the Rosicrucians.
The Rosicrucians were investigated with special care and thoroughness,
because they calimed to possess certain universal secrets that
Himmler thought might be useful in the service of SS. The connection
between the Rosicrucians and the Freemasons - only Freemasons
were accepted in the German section of the Rosicrucian Brotherhood
- was regarded as a national security threat. Their interest
in the Jewish Kabbalah was regarded as a threat against Nazi-magic
itself.
Adolf Hitler embraced the central idea in
Lanz von Liebenfel's "ariosophy", but there were many
of Lanz' ideas he could not swallow, especially the Catholic
Christianity. (This is why I don't believe Hitler's alleged Catholicism
before I see it.)
Hitler, however, had his very special method
of reading - a study technique that was very effective in his
case. He ensured his readers in "Mein Kampf" that he
had the habit of resorting to books if he wanted to solve a problem.
He insisted that his method of reading, superior to any other,
consisted of "remembering the essential and completely forgetting
the unessential." In practice this meant to define what
is essential, which in Hitler's case did not imply logical analysis,
but an intuitive and emotional process of comprehension combined
with whatever appealed to his own prejudices.
From Schopenauer he took the fatalism and
the idea of the will, but he forgot the Buddhism and the pessimism.
From Nietzsche he took the concept of evolution, the will to
power, and the Superman (Übermensch), but he forgot that
this Superman should conquer not other people, but himself. He
took from Wagner the racism, the heroism, and the paganism, but
he forgot the Aryanized Christianity. Further he took from Helena
Blavatsky and other occultists what he wanted, and forgot everything
that did not harmonize with his own world view. Thus he could
say: "We stand at the beginning of a colossal revolution
with regard to moral ideas and the spiritual orientation of humanity.
A new age is coming with the magical interpretation of reality,
an interpretation based upon the will, not upon intelligence."
All intelligent thinking should be done by
SS, and the duty of the masses was to cultivate the will to obedience.
On talk.origins, there were some fundies who
claimed that Charles Darwin's evolution was responsible for Nazism.
The atheists retorted by blaming Christianity. Dan Dugan blames
Anthroposophy. I blame the WE critics.
The only ones to blame for Nazism are the
Nazis. Period.
Cheers
Tarjei Straume
Greetings from Uncle Taz
http://www.uncletaz.com/
Anarchosophy, anarchism, anthroposophy, occultism,
Christianity, poetry,
plays, library, articles, galleries, marijuana, criminality,
death, skulls,
skeletons, banners, links, links, links. Big section in Norwegian.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tarjei Straume
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:07:46 +0200
My final comment on this subject (unless I
get around to publishing an article about Nazi occultism in English)
is that if we should search for a major influence on Nazism,
the closest link would be, I think - and I say this with great
caution and reservation - the Jesuit Order. This was not only
the source of the SS inner structure and the use of religious
techniques as propaganda and tools of mass control, but also
many fringe sciences pursued by the Nazis. One of these was a
variant of the Chinese Feng Shui, that the Jesuits brought to
Europe in the 17th century.
This conclusion of mine should still be regarded
with caution and as a suggestion rather than a so-called claim.
I recently listened to an astute Spanish historian on TV who
explained that the extent of the horror during the Spanish Inquisition
has been overrated, because it was surpassed by heresy purges
in other countries by a long shot. I'm inclined to believe that
the French campaign against the Huegenots was among the worst.
I don't know to what extent all the heresy-persecutions in Europe
were influenced directly by the Jesuit initiative, but the stronger
this influence was, the more intersting is the parallell to Nazism
and SS.
Cheers
Tarjei Straume
Greetings from Uncle Taz
http://www.uncletaz.com/
Anarchosophy, anarchism, anthroposophy, occultism,
Christianity, poetry,
plays, library, articles, galleries, marijuana, criminality,
death, skulls,
skeletons, banners, links, links, links. Big section in Norwegian.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Dan Dugan
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 01:23:02 -0700
Steve Premo, you wrote,
I suspect that Christianity had much, much
more influence over the rise of the Nazis, and the development
of their hateful policy toward the Jews, than either Anthroposophy
or Theosophy.
I agree. My position about Anthroposophy and
Naziism is (emphasis added) that it -helped- to lay the foundations
of the holocaust.
-Dan Dugan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Dan Dugan
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 01:28:03 -0700
John Morehead, you wrote,
Yikes! Are we going to now begin to hold
Christianity responsible for the religious foundation for National
Socialism? It was either the Discovery Channel or The Learning
Channel that ran a fascinating documentary for two hours on the
occultic influences on Hitler and National Socialism, not orthodox
Christianity, which unfortunately was largely silent while Hitler
rose to power and carried on his atrocities. I'll dig up the
book title and author, but there was a fascinating scholarly
treatment on Hitler and the occult as well. To sum up, there
was a far greater influence of the occult and a revival of ancient
Aryan religion on Hitler, than orthodox Christianity. But note
that I am *not* saying that all occultism leads to National Socialism,
will create a Hitler, or is responsible for the Holocaust. Individuals
can use a variety of influences to justify their personal evil.
One must distinguish between Hitler and his
cronies. Hitler himself was an opportunist who would use anything
at hand, but he was not an occultist. I am convinced of that
from reading his writings, there's just no occultism there. Himmler
and Hess were occultists, and Hitler let them play that game
to the hilt up until Hess flew the coop to England. Then Hitler
purged most of the Nazi occultists.
-Dan Dugan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Dan Dugan
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 01:18:37 -0700
Tarjei Straume quoted Hitler,
"We stand at the beginning of a colossal
revolution with regard to moral ideas and the spiritual orientation
of humanity. A new age is coming with the magical interpretation
of reality, an interpretation based upon the will, not upon intelligence."
Doesn't that sound a lot like Steiner? Warmed-over
Nietzsche.
-Dan Dugan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:46:10 -0500
"Nietzsche is dead."
G-d
At 01:18 AM 5/12/99 -0700, you wrote:
Tarjei Straume quoted Hitler,
"We stand at the beginning of a colossal
revolution with regard to moral ideas and the spiritual orientation
of humanity. A new age is coming with the magical interpretation
of reality, an interpretation based upon the will, not upon intelligence."
Doesn't that sound a lot like Steiner?
Warmed-over Nietzsche.
-Dan Dugan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Tarjei Straume
Subject: Re: Hitler's Occultism
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:30:42 +0200
Dan Dugan wrote:
Tarjei Straume quoted Hitler,
"We stand at the beginning of a colossal
revolution with regard to moral ideas and the spiritual orientation
of humanity. A new age is coming with the magical interpretation
of reality, an interpretation based upon the will, not upon intelligence."
Doesn't that sound a lot like Steiner?
Steiner emphasized thinking as a primary tool
for epistemology and cognition. This is something Hitler strongly
discouraged. He sought to control people through the emotions,
and the most effective emotion to control them, he once said,
was through the fear of imminent death by violence.
But I would agree that the names Rudolf Steiner
and Adolf Hitler have an alliteral kinship - something like Christ
and Antichrist.
Tarjei Straume
Greetings from Uncle Taz
http://www.uncletaz.com/
Anarchosophy, anarchism, anthroposophy, occultism,
Christianity, poetry,
plays, library, articles, galleries, marijuana, criminality,
death, skulls,
skeletons, banners, links, links, links. Big section in Norwegian.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Sune Nordwall
Subject: machine inspiration
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 19:22:36 +0200
Dan Dugan wrote:
Tarjei Straume quoted Hitler,
"We stand at the beginning of a colossal
revolution with regard to moral ideas and the spiritual orientation
of humanity. A new age is coming with the magical interpretation
of reality, an interpretation based upon the will, not upon intelligence."
Doesn't that sound a lot like Steiner?
No.
You´ve listened too much to imaginary
machine voices.
Sune Nordwall
Stockholm, Sweden
http://hem.passagen.se/thebee/indexeng.htm
- a site on science, homeopathy, cosmological cell biology and
EU as a mechanical esoteric temple and threefolding of society
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